Why is setting this up so hard?

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

I've spent the last 8 hours trying to get a Zabbix 2.2 appliance to report base hardware and interface characteristics via SNMP on a single Cisco router. I'm not even playing games with discovery. I manually entered the device characteristics and set the SNMP community for the appliance and attached the basic SNMP template. I've verified connectivity between the appliance and the router and we've already demoed PRTG successfully against the same router. SNMP stays red and indicates a time-out. nothing I've done changes this status. Setting up a device as common as a Cisco router should not be this hard.

[richlv]

it should not be that hard, and it probably wouldn't help if i would say "you are doing something wrong"

check same oids with same community settings using snmpget from zabbix server.

if that does not help to find out what's wrong, you might want to join irc and wait for somebody to help with more detailed troubleshooting

[steveboyson]

Nice ranting here, too:

https://www.zabbix.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43724

Can't understand what the TO's problems are. We had few to zero probs with zabbix so far, starting with 1.8.3 (and now on 2.0.10).

We are monitoring VMs, ESXi + vSphere environment, HP Switches, HP Proliants, Windows Servers (2K3, 2K8, 2K12), Linuxes, BSDs, Firewalls, Apache Web servers, Clustered DRBD resources, Backup times and rates, software and package management (Windows + Linux), Citrix Xenapp applications/usage/availability, Postfix mailservers and customer-specific tests.

I assume that OldExperienced&Bitter's problems lay somewhere else than in Zabbix.

[steveboyson]

Some tips:
- check snmpwalk from the zabbix appliance to your cisco
(snmpwalk -v2c -cSnMpCoMmUnItYsTrInG 1.2.3.4 SNMPv2-MIB::sysDescr.0)

- check that your zabbix server is allowed to connect via SNMP to your cisco.
(I don't know how to allow/deny SNMP access into a Cisco box).

- check if someone has tempered with the zabbix appliance's firewall settings
(iptables -nL)

[gavind]

Check UDP 161 and 162 in CISCO, they might be just closed.

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

Read the original post, please

I do this for a living so thank you for the newbie diags but I'm way beyond them. I understand SNMP. Conceptually, it's not that hard. Practically, it SHOULDN'T BE THAT HARD for an "SNMP-scraper" product in 2014 to monitor the most common characteristics of the most common American IT infrastructure which is composed of Cisco routers, Cisco or HP switches, and Wintel servers.

I understand that for large orgs, monitoring is a career-path. Smaller shops can't afford that. They want a tool that generates the performance information and alerts they need to keep their systems running according to the rule of 80/20 and that's it. They don't want to learn new theories or philosophies. They don't want to pay to train their IT staff. The IT staff themselves generally don't have time or patience to RTFM. They want a product that just works. Considering the 15 year ubiquity of the IT environment I mentioned, their expectations are reasonable.

Here's the scope of what I'm working on. I'm setting up identical demos of Solarwinds, PRTG, OpenNMS, Cloudview, FAN, Opsview, Zabbix, and Zenoss against the same simple lab environment. (An earlier demo of Spiceworks eliminated that product in very short order.) Solarwinds and PRTG I finished in no time with no breaks in forward motion. They are highly intuitive and geared for the most common IT environment. OpenNMS, FAN, and Opsview did the job but were too clunky and ugly. Zenoss took many hours to get to the point where it could query a single device inadequately and exhibited unstable behavior throughout. My Zabbix install (and reinstall and reinstall) never successfully queried a single device and I gave up on it. Furthermore Zabbix is a very general monitoring system with no focus on any particular environment. That's deadly for shops where the IT staff can use the system but simply do not have the expertise or depth to understand how the system works.

My real frustration is that these free products are formally and informally marketed to the point where busy CFOs and CTOs are developing the impression that they approach the quality and user-friendliness of paid, professional products. This is clearly not the case but it's very hard to explain that to an executive who's sole interest in these packages coils around the word "free".

Spiceworks is a perfect example. EVERYBODY talks about it and a few of my clients over the years have attempted using it. It doesn't stick. The product generates very little actual business value relative to the alternatives. Spiceworks' marketing creates a false impression.

Zabbix is not necessarily geared for an American IT infrastructure so I expected some learning curve, but not abject failure.

[steveboyson]

Although there is no real need to reply to your quite confusing statements I am still interested what kind of problems you ran into?

Nota bene: SNMP is only one of the supported data gathering methods of zabbix. There is actually much more available than the ... ummm ... somewhat outdated SNMP. But it is more or less the only choice for Cisco.

You could order commercial support - as you would do it for OpenView/HPSA, Tivoli, BMC and their friends.

I assume you know all that since you're an expert in the "American IT infrastructure".

(and no: I am not one of the developers of zabbix, I am just a grateful and appreciating admin, implementor, installation designer and consultant - doing this IT stuff for living as well.)

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

Don't bother

You weren't confused. Insulted, perhaps. Nobody likes being told their baby is ugly.

SNMP does the job that my clients desire. Other methods of data-gathering aren't necessary or valued in most shops. Also, my clients don't want products that require frequent external support. The only reason they even consider "free" or open-source software is financial incentive.

For my part, I can't bill a client for time figuring out counter-intuitive products nor do they like to see their IT staff struggling. As a contractor billing at a rate 4X the hourly rate of their local IT people, I have to APPEAR the expert in all of these products from day-one. (That is obviously deceptive. Any contractor can tell you the brain-dump that occurs after each gig. Three months from now I won't remember how any of these products work.)

Finally, in response to your snark about my being "an expert on American IT infrastructure", I can only say that over the last 15 years I've worked for hundreds of different companies on short-term contracts, as many as 5 simultaneously during a given 6-week period. I know what a good chunk of what America's small to medium-sized businesses are using and more importantly, what value and expectations they have for IT.

PS: You are correct in there being no need to reply. This was a rant. I was frustrated by Zabbix and wanted to vent in a forum where I know Zabbix product-development keeps an eye. And I wanted to tell enthusiasts like you that your baby is ugly. My monicker isn't "OldExperienced&Bitter" for nothing. This particular client, regardless of the executive decision to demo freebie products, needs PRTG, especially given the level of their IT-support staff. I didn't have to fight to get that system rolling and their staff won't have to fight to understand how to use it.

[steveboyson]

Haha. Your wording: priceless. Your opinion: accepted. Your idea of getting help: useless.

You are appearing here, you submit 4 (!) posts with only complaints, rants and pseudo-manager-like chitchat and then you expect to be taken serious?
Without ever trying to describe the probs you got?

Come on. Zabbix is not a product for you. But others aren't either, obviously.

P.S. Your social skills are at (-1).
Last comment from my side: have a good day.

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

Do learn to read.

Good - I'll get the last word and I'll spell it out more simply. I didn't come here to get help. My other demos are ready and my decision is made for what to plug. I came here to express hatred. Got it?

By the way, "pseudo-manager-like chitchat" is what I get from the people who SIGN MY PAYCHECK. These are real people with real authority over the technology they use to keep their business, not techno-weebies with pet-products.

[syndeysider]

My little junior rant.

I meet people like you every day in working for Government.

You feel you encounter idiots at every turn and feel like the interweb is made up of childish minds stuck on install screens. Where there you are solving world hunger with your incredibly deep understanding of SNMP. So deep in fact that you can't get something simple like Zabbix talking with your devices. I doubt most of those other products you listed are for you either.

I've done a POC with 80% of those product's you've listed. Zabbix won for a relatively LARGE Government Department where I am. Why?

I have SNMP, snmptt (wrapper), snmptt-helper (db script) and Zabbix 2.0.x working with 1500+ devices across 400 sites, 35 different SNMP Templates, some LLD rules, you know for that awesome Automatic stuff and over 200000 items being monitored perfectly with this product. Plug a newly configured router in and Networks gets a nice email with all the details and the device gets automatically added into monitoring with all the little bells and whistles you would get with ANY other product. And that's just the SNMP part...

I've managed, in my immature and small minded way, to save on HUGE cost vs a paid product and support, ensured a scalable solution, skill transfered and allowed for growth, change and followed security governance and procedure and even extended development to suit our needs.

Save your rant for someone who gives a f*&()! You're 35+ and still a techie.. sorry consultant. Goes to show how far and deep thinking you are.

Bottom line. 1000 people get Zabbix working without hiccups on more than one device. You can't get it working with a single device? Problems definitely the product.

Have a good day now.

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

You don't get it

First, I'm not a techie. I'm a businessman and a solutions provider. Sometimes the solution is technology. Sometimes it isn't. My goal is to support and MAINTAIN my business first and foremost. Technology is secondary. That's one of the more important differences between a full-time IT employee and an IT consultant.

Second, if I had all the time in the world to get Zabbix working and my demos were for managers with patience and understanding and these products were always used by folks with 4-year degrees in some form of IT, I'm sure that Zabbix could eventually work for every company I service. This is not the case. The people who pay me generally demand I recommend and deliver products that they understand and that the local IT staff can maintain. If it takes me 3 days to get Zabbix working for a simple lab environment, what do you think my expectation is for the IT technicians that I'm paid to bolster? That's where more focused commercial products like the ones I mentioned earlier deliver their value.

My problem with a product like Zabbix is only insofar as it diverges with its marketing reputation and tantalizes not-so-IT-savy executives into believing that they can maintain free and open-source products in-house without a staff of IT engineers.

You gave a f@$% enough to write a response so I know I struck nerve. That's good. Call it an opportunity to learn.

[syndeysider]

Fair enough.

Call it immaturity to a handling social trolls and I apologise for using # language.

I accept your view and opinion. I don't agree with it but i'll accept it. I'll also accept the fact that as a solutions provider this product is probably not suited to your needs, as I know see that it's concepts are maybe a little too complex compared to other products.

I am irate because you bashing a product that you, a single serving business solutions provider find difficult to use. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Just don't bible bash that opinion into fact with your pretentious opinions.

Secondly. Don't come onto a Forum entitled "Help" to voice your distain when "Troubleshooting and Problems" seems more appropriate. Or better yet, voice your concerns directly to the Sales Team?

If it takes you 3 days to get NET-SNMP, Zabbix and Cisco Routers to work than surely you have to understand that the problems lies with you and your understanding of the product and not the product itself? How can the 56 year old backup guy here understand and build his Zabbix SNMP Templates and get his Backup Servers talking to Zabbix but you can't?

My POC, from start to finish took 6 hours. One server. One proxy. One web front end. Two mysql databases. One Cisco 3925. One Cisco 3560. Two templates. A quick read up of :

http://meinit.nl/zabbix-lld-low-level-discovery-snmp-examples

For LLD based items.

https://www.zabbix.com/documentation/2.0/manual/config/items/itemtypes/snmptrap

http://ori0nx.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/a-better-zabbix-trap-handler-using-snmptt/

For the trap handling as I wanted a wrapper to change the way I understood Zabbix to handle Traps. This is not necessary, but it suited my Use Cases.

Done.

Some customized Triggers and actions and a map and I have flow diagrams with live item value feeds (bandwidth and such) along with Traps, customized Actions and workflows to sign off the Core Network Device Use Case.

6 hours. To build the solution and start the first use case. One of 45 I had completed within the week.

Where you perhaps forces to POC this product based on the customers recommendations?

This product is as complex as you would like it to be. Therein lies it's beauty. It might not be the best fit for your current engagement based on the points you have highlighted.

IMHO. I truly liked POCing Solarwinds, Zenoss and Spiceworks in particular. Is your environment mainly Windows based? Great products if it's a Windows Shop. Very "simple" to setup and get working out the gate.

Heterogeneous environment? You won't see Solarwinds helping you quickly sort out why your EMC Clariion doesn't alert or Spiceworks jumping to help with why your Brocade's wont Trap. Sales support is about as dumb as you find this Forum.

IMHO. Don't be fooled by the glamour of Paid products. They are Zabbix except closed and pricey. You pay for all the features/modules and you'll get support from someone who's still doing their 4 year degree.

Maybe a fresh start? Might want to change that attitude of your's while you at it.

[OldExperienced&Bitter]

(Sigh)

Unfortunately your reaction is typical. You are so enamored by the capabilities of these products that you don't see that their complexity, esoteric concepts, and sheer geekiness turns off most of the money-men these days - severely so in my segment. They want point-and-click systems now - nothing but. They want to hear "automagic", not "configurable". If they need expert-support, they expect it from India, not local. They hate the word "Linux" but love the word "free". These are the folks that Zabbix and the like keep enticing. Starting to see why I wanted to smack Zabbix along with you techno-enthusiasts? The way you present these products creates a false market impression which makes my job MUCH harder having to explain the truth and get them cough up the cash for what they really need.

And this is all outside of the fact that Zabbix flopped and the others I staged didn't. One other thing about paid products. Responsibility for when they fail doesn't fall on me. It falls on to whom the client wrote the check.

[kloczek]

You are so enamored by the capabilities of these products that you don't see that their complexity, esoteric concepts, and sheer geekiness turns off most of the money-men these days - severely so in my segment. They want point-and-click systems now - nothing but. They want to hear "automagic", not "configurable".

If you see possibility of doing something in zabbix using automations please say a little more about this. The same is with complexity. If you see that something in zabbix is to complicated and can be done easier just start describing your ideas.
Where is the problem?